John R. Houk
© June 10, 2015
Although this post was about tax reform I am a Christian Right Conservative that is Pro-life and a Bible Believing Christian. So I will tackle this anti-Original Sin message.
The comment is easy to pin down briefly. Adam was created without sin. Adam sold the caretaker authority of Eden to Satan by believing the lie that he and Eve would be like god knowing good and evil. When Adam and Eve partook of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil he became disobedient to God and obedient to Satan.
God had told Adam if he ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil he would surely die. Does the Bible record that Adam and Eve died physically? NO!
So is God a Liar like Satan? NO!
Adam and Eve’s death was to become separated from the Presence of God Almighty. Adam and Eve’s death was separation from God. Adam’s curse and simultaneous path to restoration of the Presence of God was issued which would affect the descendants of Adam and Eve and the entire planet Earth itself.
6 So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree desirable to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate. She also gave to her husband with her, and he ate. 7 Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves coverings. (Genesis 3: 6-7 NKJV)
They became aware of their nakedness because they were clothed glory from God’s Presence. God’s Presence left after Adam ate the fruit disobediently. They were no longer clothed.
8 And they heard the sound of the Lord God walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the Lord God among the trees of the garden.
9 Then the Lord God called to Adam and said to him, “Where are you?”
10 So he said, “I heard Your voice in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; and I hid myself.”
11 And He said, “Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree of which I commanded you that you should not eat?” (Genesis 3: 8-11 NKJV)
Adam and Eve hid from God’s Presence because they were no longer connected causing their glory clothing to disappear. The all-knowing God asked where Adam was, not because he didn’t know where he was, but because their connection via His Presence had been disconnected in disobedience.
12 Then the man said, “The woman whom You gave to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I ate.”
13 And the Lord God said to the woman, “What is this you have done?”
The woman said, “The serpent deceived me, and I ate.” (Genesis 3: 12-13 NKJV)
In being disconnected from God’s Presence the results of sin were already overtaking Adam and Eve even before the curse. Rather than taking responsibility for their own choices they took turns absolving themselves and blaming someone else.
Then God cursed Satan the Deceiver with a Promise to Redeem the fallen progeny of Adam and Eve at an undisclosed future time.
14 So the Lord God said to the serpent:
“Because you have done this,
You are cursed more than all cattle,
And more than every beast of the field;
On your belly you shall go,
And you shall eat dust
All the days of your life.
15 And I will put enmity
Between you and the woman,
And between your seed and her Seed;
He shall bruise your head,
And you shall bruise His heel.” (Genesis 3: 14-15 NKJV)
Verse 15 tells Satan that a woman human would produce the offspring that will whoop up on Satan.
Then God’s describes the curse that comes upon the female gender of humanity.
16 To the woman He said:
“I will greatly multiply your sorrow and your conception;
in pain you shall bring forth children;
Your desire shall be for your husband,
And he shall rule over you.” (Genesis 3: 16 NKJV)
Yup, hard birth pains and a male dominated society is the female gender’s curse. Then God describes the curse for Adam and the male gender.
17 Then to Adam He said, “Because you have heeded the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree of which I commanded you, saying, ‘You shall not eat of it’:
“Cursed is the ground for your sake;
In toil you shall eat of it
All the days of your life.
18 Both thorns and thistles it shall bring forth for you,
And you shall eat the herb of the field.
19 In the sweat of your face you shall eat bread
Till you return to the ground,
For out of it you were taken;
For dust you are,
And to dust you shall return.” (Genesis 3: 17-19 NKJV)
Society might be a male dominated society, but because of disobedience the planet Earth and nature itself are cursed. This is the reason bad things happen to good people: natural disasters, sickness, disease and poverty etc. Mankind’s life was transformed from a caretaker effortless worker to being cursed to work hard in toil. Also the once immortal physical body is now mortal and subject to decay and death.
Good people are thus born into Original Sin but it is not God’s doing it is the result of Adam’s disobedience. King David was born in Original Sin demonstrating his sin-nature by his making as many bad decisions as good ones. God David a man after His own heart (Why? Short Answer & Long Answer) and yet the sin-nature led him to commit adultery and murder.
2 Then it happened one evening that David arose from his bed and walked on the roof of the king’s house. And from the roof he saw a woman bathing, and the woman was very beautiful to behold. 3 So David sent and inquired about the woman. And someone said, “Is this not Bathsheba, the daughter of Eliam, the wife of Uriah the Hittite?” 4 Then David sent messengers, and took her; and she came to him, and he lay with her, for she was cleansed from her impurity; and she returned to her house. 5 And the woman conceived; so she sent and told David, and said, “I am with child.”
12 Then David said to Uriah, “Wait here today also, and tomorrow I will let you depart.” So Uriah remained in Jerusalem that day and the next.
14 In the morning it happened that David wrote a letter to Joab and sent it by the hand of Uriah. 15 And he wrote in the letter, saying, “Set Uriah in the forefront of the hottest battle, and retreat from him, that he may be struck down and die.”
17 Then the men of the city came out and fought with Joab. And some of the people of the servants of David fell; and Uriah the Hittite died also. (2 Samuel 11: 2-5, 12, 14-15, 17 NKJV)
David was a part of the lineage that was a Promise of Redeeming humanity recorded in Genesis 3: 15. God promised death for disobedience, but He also promised Redemption in his mercy.
God does not create sinners in the womb but God has a plan to Redeem every human being that died before the Incarnation of Christ the Son of God which was only the beginning of Genesis 3: 15. And to Redeem every human being born after the Son of God’s bodily Resurrection from the Dead. All that is needed is faith that the Son of God paid for our Redemption with the sinless Blood of a man descended from a human and God Almighty simultaneously AND Believe Jesus Christ is Lord of your life. A life Adam lost in disobedience, humanity regains in obedience.
4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6 one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you[a] all.
7 But to each one of us grace was given according to the measure of Christ’s gift. 8 Therefore He says:
“When He ascended on high,
He led captivity captive,
And gave gifts to men.”[b]
9 (Now this, “He ascended”—what does it mean but that He also first[c]descended into the lower parts of the earth? 10 He who descended is also the One who ascended far above all the heavens, that He might fill all things.) (Ephesians 4: 4-10 NKJV)
Steve’s use of Scripture to justify that no one is born with Original Sin comment has good intentions but I think it misses the mark. AND YET I believe neither one of us will face hell for being incorrect nor if one is correct nor the other is wrong. This is an interpretive disagreement that does nothing to affect the Blood bought Redemption we have in Christ Jesus. I don’t believe Steve’s view is an error that will be judged with condemnation and I pray, if he still disagrees with me, that he feels the same of my view.
That which is important is that Jesus overcame the same temptation to disobey as Adam by the actions of Satan. The old deceiver’s attempts to have Jesus disobey the Father in the same way Adam did way back in Eden failed. Thank God Jesus remained steadfast. Jesus was born sinless due to his Father’s divine DNA but as the second person of the Godhead, Jesus emptied Himself of all divine characteristics in order to be a human like Adam who was sinless but fell to lying temptations.
4 Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil. 2 And when He had fasted forty days and forty nights, afterward He was hungry. 3 Now when the tempter came to Him, he said, “If You are the Son of God, command that these stones become bread.”
4 But He answered and said, “It is written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.’”[a]
5 Then the devil took Him up into the holy city, set Him on the pinnacle of the temple, 6 and said to Him, “If You are the Son of God, throw Yourself down. For it is written:
‘He shall give His angels charge over you,’
‘In their hands they shall bear you up,
Lest you dash your foot against a stone.’”[b]
7 Jesus said to him, “It is written again, ‘You shall not tempt the Lord your God.’”[c]
8 Again, the devil took Him up on an exceedingly high mountain, and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory. 9 And he said to Him, “All these things I will give You if You will fall down and worship me.”
11 Then the devil left Him, and behold, angels came and ministered to Him. (Matthew 4: 1-11 NKJV)
40 There are also celestial bodies and terrestrial bodies; but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. 41 There is one glory of the sun, another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for one star differs from another star in glory.
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption. 43 It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power. 44 It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 45 And so it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being.”[a] The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.
46 However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual.47 The first man was of the earth, made of dust; the second Man is the Lord[b]from heaven. 48 As was the man of dust, so also are those who are made of dust; and as is the heavenly Man, so also are those who are heavenly. 49 And as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear[c] the image of the heavenly Man. (1 Corinthians 15: 40-49 NKJV)
Jesus is the last Adam that reconnects humanity to the Presence of God hence ending the curse of Original Sin.
Steve Finnell’s criticism of Original Sin in the womb is only correct in the sense it was caused by Adam’s disobedience and not caused by God Almighty. I felt I had to share the Good News before you read his view. I pray I made my case.
Now if one is a militant atheist, I doubt the Good News will alter your perspective short of a Damascus Road revelation. If you are a Christian, the Good News should strengthen your faith in Christ’s Redeeming work as Savior.
ORIGINAL SIN PROOF
TEXT BY STEVE FINNELL
To prove that all men are guilty of sin at conception and therefore born as sinners; original sin proponents quote David in Psalm 51:5.
David Quote: Psalm 51:5 Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, And in sin my mother conceived me. (NKJV)
Was David born into a sinful world? Yes. Was David’s mother guilty of sin? Yes. Was David guilty of his mother’s sin. No. Was David spiritually condemned because of the sin of Adam and Eve? No. David died physically because of Adam’s sin. Men die spiritually because of sins they themselves commit.
DOES GOD CREATE SINNERS IN THE WOMB?
God hates sin.
David Quote: Psalm 139:1, 13, 14 O Lord…13 For You have formed my inward parts; You have covered me in my mother’s womb. 14 I will praise You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made; Marvelous are Your works, And I know my soul knows very well. (NKJV)
God does not create sinners in the womb. God hates sin. How could David be wonderfully made in his mother’s womb and at the same time be created a guilty sinner?
Genesis 4:1 Now Adam knew Eve his wife, and she conceived and bore Cain, and said, “I have gotten a man from the Lord.”(NKJV)
Did God help Eve conceive a sinner in the womb? Of course not. God hates sin. Cain became a sinner by choice.
Was John the Baptist a sinner in the womb? No, he was not.
Luke 1:13, 15 ….you shall call his name John. 15 “For he will be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink neither wine nor strong drink. He will be filled with the Holy Spirit, even from his mother’s womb.
Are men filled with the Holy Spirit if they are sinners in the womb? No, they are not. John the Baptist was not guilty of original sin in his mother’s womb nor is anyone else.
Are little children sinners in the womb? No, they are not.
Jesus Quote: Matthew 18:3 and said, “Assuredly, I say to you, unless you are converted and become as little children, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven. (NKJV)
Was Jesus saying, in order to enter the kingdom of heaven you must be guilty of sin in the womb and born sinners like little children. Of course not. You must be free from sin as little children. Little children were not born as sinners nor are they guilty of committing sins. Little children are trusting souls; and adults must trust Jesus.
ORIGINAL SIN IS NOT MENTIONED SCRIPTURE NOR IS THE CONCEPT OF ORIGINAL SIN PRESENTED.
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Does Original Sin mean God Creates Sin?
John R. Houk
© June 10, 2015
ORIGINAL SIN PROOF
© Steve Finnell
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